Jasmine.4.t is making tender, boygenius-produced indie

As one of our Future Five for 2025, we firmly believe Jasmine.4.t is one to watch this year. As she prepares to release her debut album – the boygenius-produced 'You Are The Morning' – Lisa Wright meets her to talk about resilience, community and music as catharsis

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As the first UK artist to sign to Phoebe Bridgers’ Saddest Factory label, Manchester-based jasmine.4.t is already keeping top tier company; with her imminent debut album – this month’s raw and resilient ‘You Are The Morning’ – produced not only by Phoebs but the whole of boygenius, the singer has essentially earned herself the golden ticket in the indie lottery. Documenting the years following her transition with a deft and fragile touch that’s diaristic yet generous and empathetic, however, it’s easy to see why the trio have taken Jasmine to their hearts: these are songs that show their open wounds but find solace in community and chosen family, a lesson for us all to live by.

Having recorded in LA with Phoebe, Lucy Dacus and Julien Baker, Jasmine talks us through the turbulent process of reaching her debut and her hopes for inspiring and showing up for the next generation of trans people.

More than most artists, songwriting seems like a hugely cathartic outlet for you – how important has it been in your journey?

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I always write just as a diary, and if I don’t have my diary to hand I’ll sing into my voice memos, which is how most of my songs start. When I have a lot to process I write a lot of songs, and being a trans woman in this country right now is a lot so I have a massive backlog of songs! We recorded the album in December and even while I was there, I was going up onto the roof of the studio between takes and writing. Since then I’ve been sending Phoebe albums of demos and she’s like, ‘Fucking stop it!’.

Is writing how you’ve always processed life?

When I was in the closet, I found it so hard to write. Being true to yourself and being connected to your emotions is so important, so when you’re pretending to be a different gender and trying to bottle up everything it’s obviously just impossible. My first EP was written from 2014 onwards and was all pre-transition stuff about the relationship that was to become my [ex-]marriage and some of the troubling behaviours that were already showing in that. There’s a song on my debut EP that we renamed ‘Shoes’ and then re-recorded a version of it as ‘New Shoes’ for this record. It was a lot.

Did you want to reclaim something by reworking that track?

When Lucy suggested re-recording it, I was immediately like, ‘No, it’ll be way too painful’. But it’s a song about starting a family and wanting to do that in spite of exhaustion and being broken, so singing it in this environment with my trans-femme bandmates who came to LA from Manchester with me, I thought it could be about chosen family. When we started recording it I was finding it so painful and I couldn’t stop crying for long enough to record a full vocal take. There’s one take where I got most of the way through that we used, and at the end of it you can hear Julien and Lucy and Phoebe all coming in to hold me and comfort me. 

In the album, amongst the fear and the pain there’s a real highlighting of the positive and beautiful parts of being trans too – was that a balance you were aware of maintaining?

I feel a lot of responsibility now that I have landed on my feet in this way with my life and my career; I want to be a visible trans role model in music and also to show that things get better, because they do. That’s what ‘You Are The Morning’ means – it’s about the resilience of trans people, the incredible solidarity we have and how, if we all pull together, I think we’ll be a huge part of history and bringing about a brighter future. As trans people, we’ve gone through so much that we’re kind of like antennas to all the horrible shit going on and we want to do as much as we can to change things. We’re on the frontline and that’s fucking cool to see. 

Sonically, the record is just as raw and, as you’ve mentioned, has the unpolished, human bits left in. How did you approach that?

We didn’t have much time! We had 14 days to record the whole album. But on top of that, I just like music that’s very honest. I’m a big fan of Elliott Smith and Iron and Wine, and Phoebe is as well, so I think we both just wanted to make something raw and something that was real and emotionally connected to ourselves. The sounds are very different to how it would have ended up if I’d have just been doing it myself; I have no idea how Julien makes those guitar sounds. We just wanted to tell an honest story because we knew it would resonate with so many people.

You’ve toured with Lucy before and spoken about becoming proper friends. Does that mean that doing the record with boygenius felt normal or was there still a bit of ‘Oh shit!’ to it all?!

I mean, I wasn’t NOT like that! There were definitely moments where I’d be like, ‘What the fuck is my life?!’ They’re just so fucking funny – as individuals but especially as a group they’re just hilarious. They’re so loudly themselves and I love them all so much. There were definitely moments when I was driving them all to the studio when I’d be like… fuck. Primarily they’re my friends but also they are Gods to me.

Jasmine.4.t. photograph

Did you have any other favourite studio moments?

We had the Trans Chorus of LA come to record [on closing track ‘Woman’]. The majority of the album was recorded in Studio B in Sound City Studios, which is where Phoebe recorded ‘Punisher’, but then on that day we had Studio A booked out and that’s an iconic, massive live room where all the classics were recorded. It was incredible to fill that space with trans people. We were all aware of the magic of that moment and the power; that moment will always stay with me.

Does it feel like the music industry in general is starting to feel like a more inclusive place?

We need more trans role models and I think it does come at a cost – we’re a long way from trans people being able to have a nice, comfortable experience in the music industry; touring especially is fucking terrifying. Venues need to have a safe place for artists to get changed and have to ourselves; I’ve had to get changed in a toilet so many times, which feels very unsafe. And also not tokenising us – it’s so common to be the one queer artist and if it’s a trans woman, she’ll probably not be having a great night. But I think it’s amazing how much more representation we’re getting. It’s not there but it’s definitely a step in the right direction.

‘You Are The Morning’ will be released on January 17 via Saddest Factory Records.

Jasmine.4.t is raising awareness for Trans Mutual Aid Manchester. To support their current fundraiser, head to paypal.me/tmamcr

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