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Waxahatchee on new album 'Tigers Blood', sobriety and working with MJ Lenderman | In Depth
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Feb 9, 2025
As Waxahatchee releases her new album 'Tigers Blood', we meet the artist in London to talk about what happens one album on from your 'sober record'.
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[Music]
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well congratulations on a beautiful
0:05
album thank you so much yeah I've really
0:07
enjoyed listening to it um so it's been
0:09
like four years since St Cloud exactly
0:13
and like obviously you've been doing
0:14
other projects and stuff that like why
0:18
four years it's really organic you know
0:20
I kind of just let the songs come when
0:23
they come and then um and kind of Follow
0:25
that when the record's done then it's
0:27
time um and I think as I get older it
0:31
like feels more natural for me to take a
0:33
little time um you know I I I did do
0:38
other projects in between but the waxah
0:39
hatche records feel like they're such a
0:41
um it's just like a real release for me
0:43
to make those records and I I think that
0:46
um I try to make each one obviously like
0:49
very present like where I am in my life
0:52
at that time and feel like four years is
0:54
a good like chunk of time to sort of
0:57
Benchmark um so that's a that's sort of
1:01
just how it comes obviously the sto the
1:03
story of the last record was about like
1:06
you being sober and now you kind of like
1:08
down the line with that Journey yeah
1:10
like where where did the sort of
1:12
inspiration come from this time it's so
1:13
convenient
1:15
for like the media but then also for the
1:18
artist to have like a cleancut narrative
1:21
and so I really I 100% embraced that
1:25
with my last record like this is my
1:26
sober record it's really easy for me to
1:28
say that and then we can just sort of
1:30
like go from there um but truth be told
1:33
like that record's it's pretty complex
1:35
there's there's like there's songs about
1:37
my sobriety there's songs about
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codependency and relationships with
1:41
other addicts and you know that was just
1:42
a really specific moment that I was
1:44
trying to snapshot and so I would say
1:46
with this one it's kind of like it's
1:48
similar it's just um I'm further along
1:51
in that Journey um the newly sober
1:53
experience is really specific it's like
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your skin is just crawling with anxiety
1:58
and you're sort of like having this big
2:01
turnover uh internally and I think you
2:04
know I'll have six years of sobriety
2:06
coming up in June and I feel like um
2:09
it's I'm more settled now and more sort
2:12
of grounded in it um but in that
2:15
groundedness there's there's all kinds
2:17
of new things coming up so I kind of am
2:20
just um you know like spinning off from
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that place I guess there's like there's
2:25
writing about it and then touring like
2:29
without I'll call it imagine was like a
2:31
whole separate experience as well when
2:33
you think about what you're what you're
2:34
doing um when you're touring like the
2:37
tolls that it sort of takes on your
2:39
physical mental emotional health it's
2:41
insane that any of us drink and do drugs
2:43
when we do that um like now that as a
2:46
sober person I'm like oh I kind of have
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it figured out now actually it's
2:49
actually quite a bit easier to do this
2:52
um sober but uh but it was it was a big
2:55
change I mean I've been making music
2:58
since I was was 14 um so that's you know
3:02
21 years and I've been touring since I
3:04
was 16 um and I've been doing this as my
3:09
job for 10 years like I've just been
3:10
doing this for so long and drinking was
3:12
so ingrained in that like and that was
3:15
just the foundation of all of it feeling
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like this you're this ring leader of
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like a room full of people's night out
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um and so detaching um like from that or
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finding a way to do that without um you
3:30
know joining in uh has been has been you
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know there's been a learning curve But
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ultimately it's I think it's better I
3:39
think the quality of performance is
3:41
better um and certainly like you know my
3:44
State of Mind is better I obviously
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think the tortured artist Trope is very
3:49
um it's there's like romantic elements
3:53
to it I certainly have subscribed to it
3:55
a lot uh I found a lot of inspiration in
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embracing that and like embodying that
4:01
in my 20s um but the the these days I I
4:06
think when I made St Cloud I really
4:07
wanted to prove to myself that I could
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make a record that wasn't like entirely
4:13
embodying that um I think I lived my
4:16
life for a long time um sort of Leaning
4:21
into some chaotic decisions uh you know
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just so that I would have something
4:26
interesting to write about and I
4:28
think making that record and maybe one
4:31
of the reasons why it was a really
4:32
challenging record to write is I was
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really trying to detach from that and
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still uh write something that felt
4:39
authentic to my experience um so yeah I
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think in my own in my own Journey I'm
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trying to put that to bed I really
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respect people who who find inspiration
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in that I and I understand that like
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intimately but um yeah moving forward
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I'm trying to sort of be the most UN
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tortured artist that
5:00
now it's great um right back to it is so
5:04
beautiful thank you um I I really love
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Wednesday and like Jake felt like such a
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good partner for that song but um I read
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that you originally wrote it for to sing
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with Kevin like so I wrote right back to
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it well I wrote The Melody to write back
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to it uh years ago and at the time I
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wasn't really writing songs for myself
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yet it was kind of in the era where in
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2020 I was writing for like I wrote with
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Rona Jud I started working on the plains
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record like I was doing a bunch of stray
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songwriting projects and that's when
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that Melody came up and so I thought
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this might be cool like if Kevin and I
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do a record together this might be cool
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um and I think part of it is because it
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just felt like a unique Melody for for
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my songs like it wasn't 100% something
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it was it felt new to me um so I kind of
5:57
set it aside and I even think I told
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that night you know I had been out in
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our studio working I was I think I wrote
6:03
something cool that we could do and he
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was like cool you know um and then maybe
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like a year later I was on tour or I
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guess at this point maybe a couple years
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later I was on tour with Jason isbel and
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Cheryl Crowe and I just had this hot
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hand with songwriting I was like pulling
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up all these old Melodies and putting
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lyrics to it and finish like finishing
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those songs um and so I pulled that one
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up when we were on tour wrote all the
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lyrics out and was really excited and
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was like no no this is this is going to
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be a song for me I think um you know it
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just the way that it wrote it didn't
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feel like a duet it felt like a single
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perspective um but of course because
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Kevin was in my mind I was like this
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song is about Kevin um it's like a love
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song for Kevin so then we decided um
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that I hope it's okay if I tell this
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whole long story definitely okay great
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um so then um when I was getting ready
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to make the record Brad cook and I were
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talking about what we were going to do
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and we didn't really have any like
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cleancut ideas of what the what making
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the record was going to look like yet
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but I had seen MJ Linderman um at South
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by Southwest and I didn't even I had
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never even heard of Wednesday or MJ or
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any of that whole scene yet um but I saw
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him because Al my sister Allison and
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Brad like sent me to go see him and very
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quickly I was like well this is like my
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favorite music I've ever seen like I was
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very I was all in from like moment one
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so so to Brad I had said maybe we could
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bring in Jake and then Brad invited Jake
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to the first demo session and it just
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went so well and it really kind of put
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us on our path um and the last thing
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Jake did he had sung on some songs with
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me and I was just like obsessed I was
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like the our two voic together sounds so
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good and everything's like really
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clicking into place and right back to it
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was um the song that as the group we
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were like the most excited about like
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that song the demo of it feels very much
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like what you hear now
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um and so right before we left Brad was
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like Jake why don't you sing a Harmony
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on this and you know I like coached him
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through it and I was like here's what
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you're going to do and he was so polite
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and he was just like that's great I got
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it and then he went in and he's saying a
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completely different thing but it's so
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good and it's exactly what you hear on
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the record and as soon as we heard that
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it was just like everything completely
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like came into Focus for Brad and I so
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um yeah I just felt like I have to you
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know I got to keep Jake on this song
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like he's he kind of like in a way
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really made the song what it is so when
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we shot that video there's a couple
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parts early on when we're shooting it
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that I was like people are going to
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think this is a green screen but it's
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not it's at C Lake in uh East Texas so
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it's right it's this beautiful Lake
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that's right on the border of uh Texas
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and Louisiana it's kind of like out in
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the middle of nowhere and we just took
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one day to shoot it and so I spent like
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the majority of the day like just me and
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Jake on a pontoon boat and then everyone
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else on another pontoon boat like
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shooting us and it was so fun we just
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had a blast he had never I don't think
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he'd ever driven a boat before so he was
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like you know he was loving driving the
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boat we just we just had a really good
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time with it but yeah it it's very
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surreal very beautiful the guys who shot
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the video I told them I just want it to
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be on a pontoon boat and then they came
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in very hot the location they were like
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oh we know exactly where to shoot this
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so Jake and I were on the boat and he
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was driving and I hadn't even thought of
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this but I looked over to him and I was
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like how long do you think it's going to
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take somebody to make a you have bought
9:29
yourself a boat joke and then and then
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like not five minutes later the other
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boat that was shooting like came close
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and Corbett the director goes Hey Jake
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you have bought yourself a
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boat and we both just loved it it's so
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funny so good but so when you started
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making this record I know you said like
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you know it takes time and it kind of
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comes when it comes but like did you
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have a sort of clear idea of like what
9:53
you wanted it to be about or is it just
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sort of like a fluid process that's kind
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of happens as it happens I think when I
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make records um I try not to focus too
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much on what like on the bigger picture
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early on like I try and keep it pretty
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fluid a lot of times the songs I write
10:10
on the back half like the the second
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half of the batch of songs tend to be
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like the more concise ones because I
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think then I do sort of have an
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understanding even if I'm not um like
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super cognizant of that I I try I I
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think it just H that happens naturally
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like I get in the flow and you know the
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last couple records I've made um the
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last few songs that I write end up being
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the singles I guess right back to it
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wasn't but you know some of the other
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ones are and and same with St Cloud like
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I wrote lilacs and fire those are the
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last two songs I wrote for the record so
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I feel like I did I get really focused
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um the more I'm writing a lot of times I
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don't even totally understand what the
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bigger narrative is until I'm like
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finished doing press and like I'm
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touring the record and I've talked about
10:54
it enough that I've like unpacked what
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it's about a little bit more yeah well
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like as you say journalists always look
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to like put something in a box like you
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know it's your job it's that's okay
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that's it's that's that's the job so and
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it is a lot of times doing interviews
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and answering like similar questions can
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help you as an artist kind of unpack it
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yourself and maybe you wouldn't
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otherwise I really love that lyric you
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play The Villain Like a violin that's
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Crimes of the Heart right yes yeah what
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tell me about that song so there's a
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couple songs on the record that I kind
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of had this approach like I was really
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thinking about just songwriting as like
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a craft a lot as I was making this
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record and I kind of came up with this
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thing in my head that like a process of
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of checking off like this song is is
11:38
done or the song isn't done or whatever
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something I was thinking about is I was
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like a song of mine it either needs to
11:45
perfectly and succinctly describe you
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know a really authentic experience that
11:50
I've had or it needs to be line forline
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perfect so if something if a song feels
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like it's not really about something
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specific that's happened to me then I
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have to really like make sure every
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single line feels like a perfect line of
12:04
poetry to me and so Crimes of the Heart
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is one of those songs and so is uh Lone
12:08
Star Lake those are the two on the
12:10
record that there there sort of this
12:11
like abstract writing experience and if
12:14
you ask me what they're about it would
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be kind of hard for me to say I I
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actually don't know it just kind of like
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was coming out of me I was extra hard on
12:20
myself to make sure that it felt like it
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was evoking something even if it wasn't
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um coming from like a a direct
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experience I heard you talk a little bit
12:28
about your feelings about the music
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industry like seems from my perspective
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in lots of ways but but like um
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yeah how did that like your feelings
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about that kind of translate into music
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I feel like the music industry has
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changed a lot you know as I said I like
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keep I keep talking about aging and I'm
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35 I'm not like that old I'm sure
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there's so many people that like roll
12:49
their eyes when I talk about it but you
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know I've been doing this a long time
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and I feel very seasoned the eras that I
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romanticize of the music industry it
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looked really different than it looked
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now I don't know it's funny like I I
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feel very like
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unjudged from like all the powers that
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be to focus on a lot of things that have
13:21
nothing to do with music as an artist so
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you know just sort of like it gave me
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the opportunity through some of these
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songs to sort of of air some of that in
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a way that felt cathartic you know I
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know you don't really use social media
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too much but I saw that you just started
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a substack like what appealed to you
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about that Medium substack felt like it
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would give me the opportunity to sort of
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share without you know the scroll which
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is really nice and I also I love I love
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writing it's really um I don't and I
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don't have like a purpose for writing
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that often um other than just to write
13:56
on my own so uh I just thought it might
13:58
suit me a little bit better so it's an
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experiment it's new but I'm really
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enjoying it so far right you're a fan of
14:04
that book The Artist way um I just
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wondered like how that informs your kind
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of like creative process if at all you
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know I do love the artist way I love
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Julie Cameron um you know she takes a
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12-step approach um which I also like do
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12-step programs so I really uh
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appreciate that like the sort of
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spiritual approach to being an artist I
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think is really cool there's just like
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little nuggets of wisdom throughout that
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entire book um the morning Pages thing
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is great I've been doing a thing where I
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keep a little bit of like an audio diary
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so rather than like put pen to paper I
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will talk into my phone and let that
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kind of be my morning pages so I I think
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that's really great I think like getting
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stuff out and externalizing whatever is
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going on inside is uh is really helpful
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and that's something she really
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advocates for you and Kevin did a um
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when roie Wade was announced you did a
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like benefit show selection year you
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live in the south like how are you
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feeling about the country and like
15:01
everything I'm feeling stressed about
15:03
the country yeah
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majorly majorly stressed it's going to
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be a crazy year in America um and I know
15:08
it's like it's really a crazy time for
15:11
international European Politics as well
15:14
um you know Kevin and I live in Kansas
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and Kansas was a really interesting uh
15:19
state to live in when the overturning of
15:21
row VW happened because um it was on the
15:24
ballot after the O it got overturned um
15:28
and Kansas has a um a Democrat as a
15:31
governor but we it's a it's a really
15:33
like it's like a purple State there's
15:35
like blue bubbles that are like you know
15:37
majorly populated but then there's a lot
15:39
of conservatives in the state as well so
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it really could have gone either way and
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it was one of the few states where um
15:46
you know especially in the area in that
15:48
region where um abortion may still be
15:50
able to be legal so you know we tried to
15:53
hit the ground running as much as we
15:55
could and then we ended up um you know
15:56
Kansas as a state ended up winning that
15:58
which was great if you want people to
16:00
like this is maybe too hard to say but
16:02
like take one thing away from the new
16:04
Rec you know when I release Saint Cloud
16:08
I learned a really good lesson which was
16:10
you know when I wrote that record
16:12
obviously I was writing about this sort
16:14
of individual experience I was having a
16:15
getting sober and like learning how to
16:17
live my life that way I didn't want that
16:19
to be like overly obvious just because I
16:23
don't think that that type of record
16:25
would have hit me well like something
16:27
that was like very literally about about
16:29
sobriety so I took like really special
16:32
care to try and um make it as like
16:35
relatable or like try try to just take
16:37
like a really poetic approach to
16:39
describing those feelings and when the
16:41
record came out obviously it was right
16:43
around the time of lockdown and I felt
16:45
like the way that it landed on people
16:48
was um really interesting like I feel
16:51
like people who had never even thought
16:53
about getting sober um really connected
16:57
with that record because of totally
16:59
different feelings that they were having
17:00
about lockdown or about whatever so I
17:03
really liked that and so I was very um
17:05
conscientious as I was making this
17:07
record of you know obviously these are
17:09
going to be songs about really personal
17:11
experiences that I'm having but I want
17:13
to try and write this in a way that it
17:15
can just land on people and it can mean
17:17
for them whatever it means for
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[Music]
17:23
them
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